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National Insurance Number Letter Serial Number 5,9/10 3623reviewsFor many years, I have tried to work out or otherwise find out the structure of the UK National Insurance Number scheme and what the various elements mean. However, every time I ask, I come up against a brick wall. It must be the most closely guarded state secret in the UK!My NI number consists of two letters of the alphabet followed by 6 numbers (divided into 3 pairs) followed by a single letter. What do these letters and numbers signify?I have been told that it is possible to work out someone's date of birth from their NI number but how's it done? What other personal information is encrypted in the NI number? We all know that it is possible to find someone's date of birth from the driver number on the driving licence but what is so special about the NI number that its meaning is all hush-hush? On 16 Sep, 15:51, Alasdair wrote: For many years, I have tried to work out or otherwise find out the structure of the UK National Insurance Number scheme and what the various elements mean.
However, every time I ask, I come up against a brick wall. It must be the most closely guarded state secret in the UK! My NI number consists of two letters of the alphabet followed by 6 numbers (divided into 3 pairs) followed by a single letter.What do these letters and numbers signify?
I have been told that it is possible to work out someone's date of. Birth from their NI number but how's it done? What other personal information is encrypted in the NI number? We all know that it is possible to find someone's date of birth from the driver number on the driving licence but what is so special about the NI number that its meaning is all hush-hush? Torrent george harrison greatest hits.
- Alasdair. Sure its hush-hush? Could be merely people don't know what significance the numbers have because they don't have any?Hi Im trying to apply for my provisional license and since I dont have a passport I have to use my birth certificate and NI letter (they dont do. Print a letter showing your National Insurance number from your personal tax account, or apply by post.Whats the significance of your postcode? Merely unique area. Whats the significance of your house number?Merely identifies your house on the street. Wrote: On 16 Sep, 15:51, Alasdair wrote: For many years, I have tried to work out or otherwise find out the structure of the UK National Insurance Number scheme and what the various elements mean.
However, every time I ask, I come up against a brick wall. It must be the most closely guarded state secret in the UK!My NI number consists of two letters of the alphabet followed by 6 numbers (divided into 3 pairs) followed by a single letter.
What do these letters and numbers signify? I have been told that it is possible to work out someone's date of birth from their NI number but how's it done?
What other personal information is encrypted in the NI number? We all know that it is possible to find someone's date of birth from the driver number on the driving licence but what is so special about the NI number that its meaning is all hush-hush?- Alasdair. Sure its hush-hush?Could be merely people don't know what significance the numbers have because they don't have any? Whats the significance of your postcode?Merely unique area. Whats the significance of your house number?
Merely identifies your house on the street. On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 21:29:02 +0100, Mike wrote: No you can't work out a DOB. It's complex, when the NI scheme was set-up most adults were given NINos and the first two digits do equate to a group of years (e.g.
DOB 1916-19) but these do overlap.Most NINOs used today were issued when a child for whom Child Ben was paid turned 16. For numbers issued from the mid 60s the year of ISSUE can be approximated for the most part this will be the persons 16th birthday. All my school friends and work colleagues (except immigrants) share the same two letters as me.
It gets hazier prior to the 60s.When CHB is awarded a Child Reference Number is generated only used by HMRC for CHB+tax credits, this becomes a NINo just before the childs 16th birthday. Since the 80s(?) certain letter combinations were issued via applications rather than generated via CHB accounts, mostly foreign nationals working in the UK, immigrants, asylum seekers etc. The letter combinations and numbers give a clue to when they were issued but it is sequential and when the hit xx999999 they started another letter combination. The numbers in the middle are just sequentially generated and the letter is pretty meaningless, it did mean something but there will be no two NINos the same except for the letter and I believe the letter is entirely random now. I have a memo issued decades ago which shows which letter combos relate to years but that is quite literally secret and those that were issued it were told never to copy or pass it on without permission. In this day and age the information is pretty useless though.Mike Thanks for that. Do you think if I made a Freedom of Information request to the DWP, they would tell me now which letter combos related to years or is it still top secret or has that info been declassified?
I had been told, but am unsure of the accuracy, that the final letter indicated the quarter in which the person either was born or joined the scheme. For example, suffix A referred to Quarter 1 i.e.
January to March, B referred to Quarter 2 i.e.April to June and so on. I had also been told, but again, am unsure of the accuracy, that with regard to people who were in work when the scheme was introduced in 1948, the first two letters referred to the friendly society of which they were members up to July '48. For example, for members of the Independent Order of Rechabites, the first two letters were RE. Alasdair wrote: On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 21:29:02 +0100, Mike wrote: No you can't work out a DOB.It's complex, when the NI scheme was set-up most adults were given NINos and the first two digits do equate to a group of years (e.g. DOB 1916-19) but these do overlap. Most NINOs used today were issued when a child for whom Child Ben was paid turned 16.
For numbers issued from the mid 60s the year of ISSUE can be approximated for the most part this will be the persons 16th birthday. All my school friends and work colleagues (except immigrants) share the same two letters as me. It gets hazier prior to the 60s.When CHB is awarded a Child Reference Number is generated only used by HMRC for CHB+tax credits, this becomes a NINo just before the childs 16th birthday. Since the 80s(?) certain letter combinations were issued via applications rather than generated via CHB accounts, mostly foreign nationals working in the UK, immigrants, asylum seekers etc. The letter combinations and numbers give a clue to when they were issued but it is sequential and when the hit xx999999 they started another letter combination. The numbers in the middle are just sequentially generated and the letter is pretty meaningless, it did mean something but there will be no two NINos the same except for the letter and I believe the letter is entirely random now.I have a memo issued decades ago which shows which letter combos relate to years but that is quite literally secret and those that were issued it were told never to copy or pass it on without permission. In this day and age the information is pretty useless though.
Mike Thanks for that. Do you think if I made a Freedom of Information request to the DWP, they would tell me now which letter combos related to years or is it still top secret or has that info been declassified? I had been told, but am unsure of the accuracy, that the final letter indicated the quarter in which the person either was born or joined the scheme. For example, suffix A referred to Quarter 1 i.e.January to March, B referred to Quarter 2 i.e. April to June and so on. I had also been told, but again, am unsure of the accuracy, that with regard to people who were in work when the scheme was introduced in 1948, the first two letters referred to the friendly society of which they were members up to July '48. For example, for members of the Independent Order of Rechabites, the first two letters were RE.
Alasdair. The final letter used to indicate to the employer when NI returns had to be sent in for an individual, A was Jan to Mar, B Apr to Jun, C July to Sept and D Oct to Dec.This was obviously back in the days when everything was done clerically and probably did somehow relate to the quarter in which the person was born, or at least was probably derived from that and used as the basis on which to allocate the period in which an employer would submit NI returns for an individual. Since at least the 70s and perhaps before that the need for that final letter has vanished since companies began to submit all returns after the end of the tax year in April. As Mike says I think it is now just allocated randomly, like the numerical part of the NI number always was. The allocation of the first two letters was, as you have indicated, partly based on membership of Friendly Societies since they played an important part in helping set up the NI (clerical) database in 1948. However many, if not most, NI numbers were allocated by year of birth with the lucky recipients of 'AA' as the first two letters apparently being those born in or around 1930, those who would have been 18 in 1948. Quite why they started with those born in 1930 I don't know.
Like Mike I too used to have a list of the first two NI letters combo and the years to which people with those letters were likely to be born.But that list began to be less useful from about 1990 onwards when the DSS began to issue NI numbers to (mainly female) pensioners who had never been issued with an NI number and then even more when the concept of Child Reference Numbers began in the early 90s, starting with child DLA recipients and then children included on a Child Benefit claim. Alasdair wrote: On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 21:29:02 +0100, Mike wrote: No you can't work out a DOB. It's complex, when the NI scheme was set-up most adults were given NINos and the first two digits do equate to a group of years (e.g.DOB 1916-19) but these do overlap. Most NINOs used today were issued when a child for whom Child Ben was paid turned 16.
For numbers issued from the mid 60s the year of ISSUE can be approximated for the most part this will be the persons 16th birthday. All my school friends and work colleagues (except immigrants) share the same two letters as me. It gets hazier prior to the 60s.
When CHB is awarded a Child Reference Number is generated only used by HMRC for CHB+tax credits, this becomes a NINo just before the childs 16th birthday. Since the 80s(?) certain letter combinations were issued via applications rather than generated via CHB accounts, mostly foreign nationals working in the UK, immigrants, asylum seekers etc.The letter combinations and numbers give a clue to when they were issued but it is sequential and when the hit xx999999 they started another letter combination. The numbers in the middle are just sequentially generated and the letter is pretty meaningless, it did mean something but there will be no two NINos the same except for the letter and I believe the letter is entirely random now. I have a memo issued decades ago which shows which letter combos relate to years but that is quite literally secret and those that were issued it were told never to copy or pass it on without permission.In this day and age the information is pretty useless though. Mike Thanks for that. Do you think if I made a Freedom of Information request to the DWP, they would tell me now which letter combos related to years or is it still top secret or has that info been declassified?
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It'll probably be refused, some security issues but also confidentiality if people were aware that NINos were issued recently they might make assumptions and or discriminate. I had been told, but am unsure of the accuracy, that the final letter indicated the quarter in which the person either was born or joined the scheme. For example, suffix A referred to Quarter 1 i.e. January to March, B referred to Quarter 2 i.e.April to June and so on. May have done but I've seen sequentially allocated NINos issued the same day with different suffixes so not recently. I have a school frind bor in the same month with a different suffix. I had also been told, but again, am unsure of the accuracy, that with regard to people who were in work when the scheme was introduced in 1948, the first two letters referred to the friendly society of which they were members up to July '48.
For example, for members of the Independent Order of Rechabites, the first two letters were RE.Might do but not everyone was friendly! Robbie wrote: Alasdair wrote: On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 21:29:02 +0100, Mike wrote: No you can't work out a DOB. It's complex, when the NI scheme was set-up most adults were given NINos and the first two digits do equate to a group of years (e.g. DOB 1916-19) but these do overlap.Most NINOs used today were issued when a child for whom Child Ben was paid turned 16. For numbers issued from the mid 60s the year of ISSUE can be approximated for the most part this will be the persons 16th birthday.
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All my school friends and work colleagues (except immigrants) share the same two letters as me. It gets hazier prior to the 60s. When CHB is awarded a Child Reference Number is generated only used by HMRC for CHB+tax credits, this becomes a NINo just before the childs 16th birthday.Since the 80s(?) certain letter combinations were issued via applications rather than generated via CHB accounts, mostly foreign nationals working in the UK, immigrants, asylum seekers etc. The letter combinations and numbers give a clue to when they were issued but it is sequential and when the hit xx999999 they started another letter combination. The numbers in the middle are just sequentially generated and the letter is pretty meaningless, it did mean something but there will be no two NINos the same except for the letter and I believe the letter is entirely random now. I have a memo issued decades ago which shows which letter combos relate to years but that is quite literally secret and those that were issued it were told never to copy or pass it on without permission. In this day and age the information is pretty useless though.
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Mike Thanks for that. Do you think if I made a Freedom of Information request to the DWP, they would tell me now which letter combos related to years or is it still top secret or has that info been declassified?I had been told, but am unsure of the accuracy, that the final letter indicated the quarter in which the person either was born or joined the scheme. For example, suffix A referred to Quarter 1 i.e. January to March, B referred to Quarter 2 i.e.April to June and so on. I had also been told, but again, am unsure of the accuracy, that with regard to people who were in work when the scheme was introduced in 1948, the first two letters referred to the friendly society of which they were members up to July '48. For example, for members of the Independent Order of Rechabites, the first two letters were RE.- Alasdair.
The final letter used to indicate to the employer when NI returns had to be sent in for an individual, A was Jan to Mar, B Apr to Jun, C July to Sept and D Oct to Dec. This was obviously back in the days when everything was done clerically and probably did somehow relate to the quarter in which the person was born, or at least was probably derived from that and used as the basis on which to allocate the period in which an employer would submit NI returns for an individual. Since at least the 70s and perhaps before that the need for that final letter has vanished since companies began to submit all returns after the end of the tax year in April. As Mike says I think it is now just allocated randomly, like the numerical part of the NI number always was.The allocation of the first two letters was, as you have indicated, partly based on membership of Friendly Societies since they played an important part in helping set up the NI (clerical) database in 1948.
However many, if not most, NI numbers were allocated by year of birth with the lucky recipients of 'AA' as the first two letters apparently being those born in or around 1930, those who would have been 18 in 1948.Quite why they started with those born in 1930 I don't know. Like Mike I too used to have a list of the first two NI letters combo and the years to which people with those letters were likely to be born. But that list began to be less useful from about 1990 onwards when the DSS began to issue NI numbers to (mainly female) pensioners who had never been issued with an NI number and then even more when the concept of Child Reference Numbers began in the early 90s, starting with child DLA.
Recipients and then children included on a Child Benefit claim.More organised since the late 90s with application inspired NINOs having specific suffixes. On 16 Sep, 23:56, Mike wrote: Robbie wrote: Alasdair wrote: On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 21:29:02 +0100, Mike wrote: No you can't work out a DOB.
It's complex, when the NI scheme was set-up most adults were given NINos and the first two digits do equate to a group of years (e.g. DOB 1916-19) but these do overlap.
Most NINOs used today were issued when a child for whom Child Ben was paid turned 16. For numbers issued from the mid 60s the year of ISSUE can be approximated for the most part this will be the persons 16th birthday.All my school friends and work colleagues (except immigrants) share the same two letters as me. It gets hazier prior to the 60s. When CHB is awarded a Child Reference Number is generated only used by HMRC for CHB+tax credits, this becomes a NINo just before the childs 16th birthday.
Since the 80s(?) certain letter combinations were issued via applications rather than generated via CHB accounts, mostly foreign nationals working in the UK, immigrants, asylum seekers etc. The letter combinations and numbers give a clue to when they were issued but it is sequential and when the hit xx999999 they started another letter combination.
The numbers in the middle are just sequentially generated and the letter is pretty meaningless, it did mean something but there will be no two NINos the same except for the letter and I believe the letter is entirely random now. I have a memo issued decades ago which shows which letter combos relate to years but that is quite literally secret and those that were issued it were told never to copy or pass it on without permission.In this day and age the information is pretty useless though. Mike Thanks for that. Do you think if I made a Freedom of Information request to the DWP, they would tell me now which letter combos related to years or is it still top secret or has that info been declassified? I had been told, but am unsure of the accuracy, that the final letter indicated the quarter in which the person either was born or joined the scheme.
For example, suffix A referred to Quarter 1 i.e. January to March, B referred to Quarter 2 i.e. April to June and so on.I had also been told, but again, am unsure of the accuracy, that with regard to people who were in work when the scheme was introduced in 1948, the first two letters referred to the friendly society of which they were members up to July '48.
For example, for members of the Independent Order of Rechabites, the first two letters were RE. Alasdair.The final letter used to indicate to the employer when NI returns had to be sent in for an individual, A was Jan to Mar, B Apr to Jun, C July to Sept and D Oct to Dec. This was obviously back in the days when everything was done clerically and probably did somehow relate to the quarter in which the person was born, or at least was probably derived from that and used as the basis on which to allocate the period in which an employer would submit NI returns for an individual.Since at least the 70s and perhaps before that the need for that final letter has vanished since companies began to submit all returns after the end of the tax year in April. As Mike says I think it is now just allocated randomly, like the numerical part of the NI number always was.The allocation of the first two letters was, as you have indicated, partly based on membership of Friendly Societies since they played an important part in helping set up the NI (clerical) database in 1948. However many, if not most, NI numbers were allocated by year of birth with the lucky recipients of 'AA' as the first two letters apparently being those born in or around 1930, those who would have been 18 in 1948.Quite why they started with those born in 1930 I don't know. Like Mike I too used to have a list of the first two NI letters combo and the years to which people with those letters were likely to be born. But that list began to be less useful from about 1990 onwards when the DSS began to issue NI numbers to (mainly female) pensioners who had never been issued with an NI number and then even more when the concept of Child Reference Numbers began in the early 90s, starting with child DLA recipients and then children included on a Child Benefit claim.
More organised since the late 90s with application inspired NINOs having specific suffixes. Mike- Hide quoted text -Show quoted text - Also since the early 90s likely all those who had the same NI have been tracked down and reallocated, usually when claiming benefit or pension. Pretty rare even then - only ever saw it a handful of times over the course of a few years.Wrote: On 16 Sep, 23:56, Mike wrote: Robbie wrote: Alasdair wrote: On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 21:29:02 +0100, Mike wrote: No you can't work out a DOB. It's complex, when the NI scheme was set-up most adults were given NINos and the first two digits do equate to a group of years (e.g. DOB 1916-19) but these do overlap. Most NINOs used today were issued when a child for whom Child Ben was paid turned 16.
For numbers issued from the mid 60s the year of ISSUE can be approximated for the most part this will be the persons 16th birthday.All my school friends and work colleagues (except immigrants) share the same two letters as me. It gets hazier prior to the 60s.
When CHB is awarded a Child Reference Number is generated only used by HMRC for CHB+tax credits, this becomes a NINo just before the childs 16th birthday. Since the 80s(?) certain letter combinations were issued via applications rather than generated via CHB accounts, mostly foreign nationals working in the UK, immigrants, asylum seekers etc. The letter combinations and numbers give a clue to when they were issued but it is sequential and when the hit xx999999 they started another letter combination. The numbers in the middle are just sequentially generated and the letter is pretty meaningless, it did mean something but there will be no two NINos the same except for the letter and I believe the letter is entirely random now.I have a memo issued decades ago which shows which letter combos relate to years but that is quite literally secret and those that were issued it were told never to copy or pass it on without permission. In this day and age the information is pretty useless though.Mike Thanks for that.
Do you think if I made a Freedom of Information request to the DWP, they would tell me now which letter combos related to years or is it still top secret or has that info been declassified? I had been told, but am unsure of the accuracy, that the final letter indicated the quarter in which the person either was born or joined the scheme. For example, suffix A referred to Quarter 1 i.e. January to March, B referred to Quarter 2 i.e.
April to June and so on. I had also been told, but again, am unsure of the accuracy, that with regard to people who were in work when the scheme was introduced in 1948, the first two letters referred to the friendly society of which they were members up to July '48.For example, for members of the Independent Order of Rechabites, the first two letters were RE. Alasdair. The final letter used to indicate to the employer when NI returns had to be sent in for an individual, A was Jan to Mar, B Apr to Jun, C July to Sept and D Oct to Dec. This was obviously back in the days when everything was done clerically and probably did somehow relate to the quarter in which the person was born, or at least was probably derived from that and used as the basis on which to allocate the period in which an employer would submit NI returns for an individual.Since at least the 70s and perhaps before that the need for that final letter has vanished since companies began to submit all returns after the end of the tax year in April.
As Mike says I think it is now just allocated randomly, like the numerical part of the NI number always was. The allocation of the first two letters was, as you have indicated, partly based on membership of Friendly Societies since they played an important part in helping set up the NI (clerical) database in 1948. However many, if not most, NI numbers were allocated by year of birth with the lucky recipients of 'AA' as the first two letters apparently being those born in or around 1930, those who would have been 18 in 1948. Quite why they started with those born in 1930 I don't know.Like Mike I too used to have a list of the first two NI letters combo and the years to which people with those letters were likely to be born. But that list began to be less useful from about 1990 onwards when the DSS began to issue NI numbers to (mainly female) pensioners who had never been issued with an NI number and then even more when the concept of Child Reference Numbers began in the early 90s, starting with child DLA recipients and then children included on a Child Benefit claim.
More organised since the late 90s with application inspired NINOs having specific suffixes.Mike- Hide quoted text -Show quoted text - Also since the early 90s likely all those who had the same NI have been tracked down and reallocated, usually when claiming benefit or pension. Pretty rare even then - only ever saw it a handful of times over the course of a few years. Wrote in message news. On 17 Sep, 09:16, wrote: On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 15:51:44 +0100, Alasdair wrote: The letter at the end is the month you were born with the year divided by four.A= Jan, Feb, March. B= April, May June, etc. A useless life is an early death.Goethe Ah, that explains why mine ends in D then. My birthday is in February.
My wife's NI number ends in a C, her was born in April. But mine ends in A, and I was not born in Jan, Feb, March. On 18 Sep, 10:45, wrote: On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 18:29:41 +0100, Mike wrote: Mine's right: July, c!- A useless life is an early death.
Goethe In the days when NI stamps had to be stuck to cards, full cards had be sent in and replaced with new blank cards. Obviously exchanging everybody's cards once a year would have overworked the civil servants. So they were sent in in batches every three months, letter A one quarter, B the next and so on. When someone left an employer he was 'given his cards', eg his NI card and P45. For many years, I have tried to work out or otherwise find out the structure of the UK National Insurance Number scheme and what the various elements mean. However, every time I ask, I come up against a brick wall.It must be the most closely guarded state secret in the UK!
My NI number consists of two letters of the alphabet followed by 6 numbers (divided into 3 pairs) followed by a single letter. What do these letters and numbers signify?
I have been told that it is possible to work out someone's date of birth from their NI number but how's it done?What other personal information is encrypted in the NI number? We all know that it is possible to find someone's date of birth from the driver number on the driving licence but what is so special about the NI number that its meaning is all hush-hush? Click to expand.I have done some reading and found lots of the information about NI number formats on the HMRC web site have 'text removed and exempt from Freedom of Information Act' In the USA, a man has worked out how to exchange the letters on his Social Security numbers to numerals. From this he can access his 'Pre-paid' bank account.US banking is based upon the Bank of England model. Our Birth Certificates are held at the Treasury and have value and bonds attached to them and issued to banks so that the Government can borrow money and the Birth Certificate becomes the surety in that legislation dictates the Government can collect tax from us. Bank accounts are of 8 numerals so converting the prefix letters to numerals may bring about the bank account number.
The American system is based around the Uniform Commercial Code and you can become the secured party of that bank account by filling in a UCC1 and gain access to it.It has millions in it due to the Fractional Reserve System. Check out the Bank of England Nominees Ltd and the Bank of England registered at Companies House. The former is the part of the Bank which lends to Government and has 1.Share capital, £2, Assets £2, Cash at Bank £2. With this, how can the BofE lend £1.5 trillion and what is the colateral?